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Post by kennypowers on Apr 8, 2009 18:23:24 GMT -7
Has anybody ordered a renegade intake manifold? I was thinking on ordering one myself. What are the pros and cons of this intake? It has larger runners so would I loose low end torque with this? Should I just port my crossfire intake? What is the best way to go about porting my crossfire intake manifold?
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Post by tom400cfi on Apr 8, 2009 20:52:39 GMT -7
I haven't tried one...or even seen a pic of one to date, but I think I can tell you a few things w/some certainty as I had and played w/CFI for about 12 years.
You can NOT go too big w/the intake, short of going to an Edelbrock SY-1 or an Offy. The stock intake is SO small, for the 350 engine, that you absolutely will not lose a noticeable amount of low RPM tq. The only thing you will notice more tq, and more power.
I don't know that the "Renegade" is better than a stock, FULLY ported intake. I am skeptical about that would absolutely want to see flow data, hp graphs, and 1/4 mile times for the Renegade before putting down money, that's for sure.
What kind of mechanical experience do you have?
-Tom
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Post by kennypowers on Apr 8, 2009 22:38:38 GMT -7
I saw a picture of the inside of the renegade and it has a tapered runners about 20% larger and they are bigger on the inlet end and taper down to the exit end(head). There is no EGR channel in the way. But your EGR will hook up to this manfold. The runners look to have a steeper pitch with a funnel shape and are leaning back on the inlet, I guess this will allow for a better fuel air mixture to funnel down into the runner on to the head. There is no need for those swirl viens, the fuel will have a much easier time getting into the runners. It looks to be a better design than the x-ram and the stock intake.
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Post by 500hp406 on Apr 9, 2009 8:00:30 GMT -7
On the smokin vettes forum there are about 400 posts on the renegade, and unless 90 people pre-purchase the intake, there will be no intake,
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Post by tom400cfi on Apr 9, 2009 10:23:48 GMT -7
You don't need the "swirl veins" in the stock intake.
In it's "final form" with me as the owner, my car was putting out over 300 hp through the stock (but ported) CFI intake. With the induction system I had: *Removed the swirl plates, *Radiused the underside of the lid at the TB ports *Bored the TB's to 53 mm *Tried 1/2" plenum lid spacer that I made (No improvement at all) *Ported the crap out of the runners...but I could have, and should have gone further *Cut and filled the cooant channel under the intake (No improvement at all. Waste of time) *Installed injector pot/tower spacers to raise the injectors *Radiused and smoothed the TB inlet, more *installed 90 pph injectors *Walbro 255 lph pump *Marine application, Vacuum reference fuel pressure regulator, retaining original CFI spring *CAI (on a Trans Am) Forced open ALL the time, and snorkel plugged off.
All that, bolted on to my engine in an '83 Trans Am, netted me low 13's, stock-like idle, 24 mpg on road trips, and TONS of torque and throttle response from 0-5000 RPM. That car had way more "SOTP" fun factor than my current C6.
EDIT: I just looked at their web site again. Still don't see pics, but their claim of 33 hp gain on a stock 350 sounds good. I'm a little leary of the timing change for the Renegade test though. On a stock '82-'84 motor, you could grab 10-15 hp just from the timing change alone. Stock timing on those motors is doggy; WAY too conservative.
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Post by kennypowers on Apr 9, 2009 13:46:54 GMT -7
What should the timing be set at on a crossfire? If you purchase the intake they will send out pictures of the inside, a friend of mine bought one and he showed me the pictures of it. It looks good, but what do I know.
Did you shorten the runners on the inside of your crossfire intake or slope the inlet back?
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Post by tom400cfi on Apr 9, 2009 15:38:50 GMT -7
I don't remember what I had my Timing set at but "feed it what it wants". Basically experiment w/more timing until you start to get into detonation, then back it off a hair. Detonation will be the limiting factor on that motor, and you'll make more power, the more timing you run up to that point. I've run other motors where you start to lose power from over advance, before detonation occurs, but that isn't the cast w/a stock or stockish CFI motor. I think '84Crossfire is running around 12*, but I'm not sure. It would be nice if he could chime in here too. His car is a box-stock, 160k mile long block. His only ENGINE mods are ported intake (he's the only one I know who FULLY ported his CFI intake), CAI mod, gutted cat and aftermarket exhaust. Other mods include a converter, and I THINK that's about it. He runs mid to hogh 14's here in SLC, which is impressive, in my book. I only opened the I.D. of my runners significantly, and throughout their entire length. Most people "port match" the intake and call it "ported", which it's not. I did the entire length of the runners, but when I was finished, I still had some wall/ceiling/floor thickness. I was afraid of pokeing through, or waekening the "structure"....but my fear was unfounded and I should have ground away more metal. 84Crossfire proved that to my by how he did his. Anyway, I did that porting, and radiused the mouthes of the runner as much as I could, and that was about it. I don't see a need to shorten the runner. It's already too short for the RPM that even a ported runner can support on a 350 engine, IMO.
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Post by kennypowers on Apr 13, 2009 22:05:19 GMT -7
I went ahead and ordered the intake from DCS.
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Post by tom400cfi on Apr 14, 2009 8:32:25 GMT -7
Cool. I'd like to take a look when it comes in, if possible.
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Post by kennypowers on Apr 14, 2009 14:16:19 GMT -7
I will post pictures once I get it in the mail, and report on the power gains or power losses, more likely gains the way the runners are setup.
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Post by Bettyweard on Oct 5, 2020 22:35:49 GMT -7
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Post by tom400cfi on Nov 10, 2020 18:31:58 GMT -7
Who's the bigger loser: kennypowers? Or Bettyweard?
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